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Website URL : http://www.swansea.gov.uk/index.cfm?articleid=619

Agenda and minutes

Venue: Committee Room 3 - Civic Centre, Swansea. View directions

Contact: Liz Jordan 01792 637314 

No. Item


Disclosure of Personal and Prejudicial Interests.


Disclosures of interest – Chris Holley


Notes of previous meetings pdf icon PDF 117 KB

To receive the notes of the previous meetings and agree as an accurate record.

Additional documents:


The Panel agreed the notes as an accurate record of the meetings held on 21 August 2018 and 17 September 2018.


Public Question Time

Questions must relate to matters on the Agenda and will be dealt with in a 10 minute period.


Questions asked by members of the public:


Question 1 – Lack of Public Communication and Participation


a)    Why are the Western Bay Board Agendas/ meetings not published on the Swansea Councils Website?


b)    The Western Bay Quarterly Newsletters are not printed and distributed, nor published on Swansea Council Website, Twitter/ Facebook etc to inform the public.  Why?


c)     Similarly, the Western Bay Citizen Panel public meetings are not advertised by Swansea Council to provide a suitable venue for wider public participation.  Why?


d)    Contrary to the open, transparent accountability of Swansea Council, repeated requests made to Western Bay Board to permit Public attendance at Board meetings have all been denied. With the previous Programme Manager and the Western Bay Chairman, Cllr Rob Stewart, recorded as seeking legal advice upon the issue of allowing public attendance. A recent Freedom of Information request made to Swansea Council to request the content of the legal advice obtained by Cllr Rob Stewart regarding public access to Western Bay Board meetings being refused a response! Please could you advise why it was considered necessary to subsequently request the opinion of an external consultancy body as to the issue of allowing public attendance at Western Bay Board Meetings. And do the Swansea Councillors attending the Western Bay Board Meetings agree and support the external Consultant advice obtained that “public admittance at Western Bay Board Meetings is not considered necessary”? Please could you suggest what content/elements of Western Bay Board meetings should suggest the total exclusion of the Public from attending?


e)    Does the Swansea Adult Services Scrutiny Panel  agree with, and consider as reasonable, the early recorded Western Bay Board minutes entry that “It is not considered appropriate for any elected  Welsh Assembly Member to attend and engage with the Western Bay Citizen Panel meetings?


Question 2 – Review and Reassessment of Complex Needs Care Cases


Since the Programme’s inception in 2014, there has been a saving of £4,527,053!


a)    Please will you advise how the advance savings target of £1 million / annum was determined.


b)    Please indicate how many complex needs care cases have been reviewed to date, and how many remain to be completed in the Swansea Council area?


c)     Please indicate which typical elements of the existing complex needs care packages that have been reduced following reassessment, have produced the greatest cost savings.


The Cabinet Member was not present at the meeting.  Officers answered factual questions at the meeting and the Panel requested that a full written response be provided by the Cabinet Member following the meeting.




·       Cabinet Member to provide a written response to the questions and copy in Panel Members.



Western Bay Health and Social Care Programme - Presentation and Briefing pdf icon PDF 2 MB

Kelly Gillings, Interim Regional Programme Lead Officer


Kelly Gillings, Interim Regional Programme Lead Officer, presented an overview of the Western Bay Programme and answered questions.


Discussion points:


·       Panel felt it was good that there had been savings but want to know how much has been spent and how it was split between the Authorities and the Health Board

·       Panel feel re-branding of Western Bay is not necessary as it will still be the western part of the bay after Bridgend has left.

·       Panel would like to know the cost to both Swansea Council and the Health Board of the changes to ABMU and the loss of Bridgend to Cwm Taf.  Breakdown of budgets to be provided

·       Confirmed tangible savings in complex care are based on packages of care so we know the savings exactly

·       Officers confirmed there are still pay differences between staff employed locally and working regionally.  Generally teams performed well regionally.

·       Concern expressed about two aspects of arrangements for Western Bay.  The confusing complexity of the management chart on page 38 of the papers and the lack of clear lines of accountability. Also the imprecision of the roles of various task groups cited in the lowest levels of the chart. Panel also suggested it might have been useful to apply learning from network theory to the development of these arrangements.  Officers confirmed that it is not clear that there is an overall vision and that the chart needs to be made simpler.  Agreed it would be useful for the Panel to see the review of Western Bay arrangements. 

·       Panel queried whether we would have the same results if the Local Authorities had be given the money instead of the region.  Officers felt some things would have been completed quicker or better but not overall.  Also it has forced the Health Board and the Authorities to work together on some difficult issues.  Another positive of the regional arrangement is that there is equity of service across the region.

·       Panel to have sight of work plans which are being completed in December.




·       Breakdown of budgets to be provided to the Panel for information

·       Update on Western Bay arrangements following the review to be added to Panel work programme early in next municipal year (date to be agreed)

·       Further questions from the Panel on this item to be included in a letter to Western Bay for response

·       Work plans to be provided to the Panel.


Overview of Supporting People Programme Grant pdf icon PDF 90 KB

Alex Williams, Head of Adult Services

Additional documents:


Anita Evans, Performance and Development Officer, Supporting People Team, went through the report, focussing on the main issues and answering questions. 


Discussion points:


·       Panel feels probation should be doing more and wanted to know what was being done to make them facilitate their role.  Informed there is a review at national level and information on this will be provided to the Panel

·       Informed flexibility scheme should help the Council with joint commissioning.



·       Information on review to be circulated to Panel members.




Work Programme Timetable 2018/19 pdf icon PDF 97 KB


The Panel considered the Work Programme.



Letters pdf icon PDF 190 KB

a) Convener’s letter to Cabinet Member (21 August 2018 meeting)

b) Convener’s letter to Cabinet Member (17 September 2018 meeting)

Additional documents:


Letters received and considered by the Panel.

Convener's letter to Cabinet Member (25 September 2018) pdf icon PDF 184 KB

Convener's letter to Western Bay (25 September 2018 meeting) pdf icon PDF 134 KB

Response from Cabinet Member (25 September 2018 meeting) pdf icon PDF 247 KB

Response from Western Bay 1 (25 September 2018 meeting) pdf icon PDF 370 KB

Response from Western Bay 2 (25 September 2018 meeting) pdf icon PDF 217 KB


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